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AMSHINOV- no quarter asked,no quarter given

Think of me as perpetual Shil'shel Peh

Monday, November 21, 2005

Yo' Abe Whats Up With That?

פרק יח
כב וַיִּפְנוּ מִשָּׁם הָאֲנָשִׁים, וַיֵּלְכוּ סְדֹמָה; וְאַבְרָהָם--עוֹדֶנּוּ עֹמֵד, לִפְנֵי יְהוָה. כג וַיִּגַּשׁ אַבְרָהָם, וַיֹּאמַר: הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה, צַדִּיק עִם-רָשָׁע. כד אוּלַי יֵשׁ חֲמִשִּׁים צַדִּיקִם, בְּתוֹךְ הָעִיר; הַאַף תִּסְפֶּה וְלֹא-תִשָּׂא לַמָּקוֹם, לְמַעַן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם אֲשֶׁר בְּקִרְבָּהּ. כה חָלִלָה לְּךָ מֵעֲשֹׂת כַּדָּבָר הַזֶּה, לְהָמִית צַדִּיק עִם-רָשָׁע, וְהָיָה כַצַּדִּיק, כָּרָשָׁע; חָלִלָה לָּךְ--הֲשֹׁפֵט כָּל-הָאָרֶץ, לֹא יַעֲשֶׂה מִשְׁפָּט. כו וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה, אִם-אֶמְצָא בִסְדֹם חֲמִשִּׁים צַדִּיקִם בְּתוֹךְ הָעִיר--וְנָשָׂאתִי לְכָל-הַמָּקוֹם, בַּעֲבוּרָם. כז וַיַּעַן אַבְרָהָם, וַיֹּאמַר: הִנֵּה-נָא הוֹאַלְתִּי לְדַבֵּר אֶל-אֲדֹנָי, וְאָנֹכִי עָפָר וָאֵפֶר. כח אוּלַי יַחְסְרוּן חֲמִשִּׁים הַצַּדִּיקִם, חֲמִשָּׁה--הֲתַשְׁחִית בַּחֲמִשָּׁה, אֶת-כָּל-הָעִיר; וַיֹּאמֶר, לֹא אַשְׁחִית, אִם-אֶמְצָא שָׁם, אַרְבָּעִים וַחֲמִשָּׁה. כט וַיֹּסֶף עוֹד לְדַבֵּר אֵלָיו, וַיֹּאמַר, אוּלַי יִמָּצְאוּן שָׁם, אַרְבָּעִים; וַיֹּאמֶר לֹא אֶעֱשֶׂה, בַּעֲבוּר הָאַרְבָּעִים. ל וַיֹּאמֶר אַל-נָא יִחַר לַאדֹנָי, וַאֲדַבֵּרָה--אוּלַי יִמָּצְאוּן שָׁם, שְׁלֹשִׁים; וַיֹּאמֶר לֹא אֶעֱשֶׂה, אִם-אֶמְצָא שָׁם שְׁלֹשִׁים. לא וַיֹּאמֶר, הִנֵּה-נָא הוֹאַלְתִּי לְדַבֵּר אֶל-אֲדֹנָי--אוּלַי יִמָּצְאוּן שָׁם, עֶשְׂרִים; וַיֹּאמֶר לֹא אַשְׁחִית, בַּעֲבוּר הָעֶשְׂרִים. לב וַיֹּאמֶר אַל-נָא יִחַר לַאדֹנָי, וַאֲדַבְּרָה אַךְ-הַפַּעַם--אוּלַי יִמָּצְאוּן שָׁם, עֲשָׂרָה; וַיֹּאמֶר לֹא אַשְׁחִית, בַּעֲבוּר הָעֲשָׂרָה.

Abraham Intercedes for Sodom
genesis 18:22-32
22So the men turned from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the LORD. 23Then Abraham drew near and said, "Will you indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city. Will you then sweep away the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous who are in it? 25Far be it from you to do such a thing, to put the righteous to death with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?" 26And the LORD said, "If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the city, I will spare the whole place for their sake."

27Abraham answered and said, "Behold, I have undertaken to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes. 28Suppose five of the fifty righteous are lacking. Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five?" And he said, "I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there." 29Again he spoke to him and said, "Suppose forty are found there." He answered, "For the sake of forty I will not do it." 30Then he said, "Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak. Suppose thirty are found there." He answered, "I will not do it, if I find thirty there." 31He said, "Behold, I have undertaken to speak to the Lord. Suppose twenty are found there." He answered, "For the sake of twenty I will not destroy it." 32Then he said, "Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once. Suppose ten are found there." He answered, "For the sake of ten I will not destroy it."


Abraham Does Not Intercede for His Own Children-

לֶךְ לֶךְ
פרק טו
יב וַיְהִי הַשֶּׁמֶשׁ לָבוֹא, וְתַרְדֵּמָה נָפְלָה עַל-אַבְרָם; וְהִנֵּה אֵימָה חֲשֵׁכָה גְדֹלָה, נֹפֶלֶת עָלָיו.

genesis 15:12
Now the sun was ready to set, and a deep sleep fell upon Abram, and behold, a fright, a great darkness was falling upon him.

What was the “deep dark dread” that befell Abraham? The Midrash explains that Abraham was shown the future great empires that would control the world and bring terror to it, each in their own way: the Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman and Ishmaelite empires [Mechilta Yitro 9. Bereishis Rabba 44:17. Pirkei D’rebbi Eliezer ch. 28.]



but us, his own spawn earn just a few tears shed; and not even the slightest protest raised from our forefather Avraham? WHAT GIVES?

-amshinover:if you have nothing nice to say, say it here


  • At 11/21/2005 1:52 PM, Blogger Krum as a bagel said…

    Sounds like a liberal jew?

  • At 11/21/2005 1:55 PM, Blogger AMSHINOVER said…

    liberal jew meaning hates his own loves the sinners ?

  • At 11/21/2005 1:59 PM, Blogger Mar Gavriel said…

    Sounds like a Christian.

    (Jesus said: "You must hate your friends and family, and love random beggars whom you'll never meet again. That's why it's so popular to be a monk in certian Xian circles.)

  • At 11/21/2005 2:40 PM, Blogger Nephtuli said…

    Wow, I'm on the pantheon with the likes of Perry Mason. But how could you forget Matlock?

  • At 11/21/2005 3:05 PM, Blogger Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said…

    Another good question about Avraham...

    Maybe he knew that the oppressions of his descendents would be temporary, while the desctruction of Sedom is final?

  • At 11/21/2005 3:56 PM, Blogger chuck said…

    steg is great
    how bout sdom was happening now and the dream stuff was still vague in time, place or certainty
    or ya know the bad things on this world, look totally different from the upstairs view so even if it was scary its still good for us, in the long run

  • At 11/21/2005 5:27 PM, Blogger DovBear said…

    He wasn't arguing; he was learnng, as discussed on my very excellent blog.

    And no one loves Jews more than the liberals. We aren't the ones who go around bad mouthing the less religious. You want to see anti-Semitism in action, visit Heshy, for example.

  • At 11/22/2005 6:14 AM, Blogger Yaakov Aizel said…

    Liberals hate hate and love love while conservatives love hate and hate love. Maybe Abraham saw the future of his children who turned into blind conservatives and occupy their empty lives with hate and hostility.

    He saw Borough Park and Crown Heights and how they all label everyone and judge groups of people by the actions of a few. He gave up on them. By not crying he cried

    “ Let freedom ring Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!”

  • At 11/22/2005 10:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Avraham understood that golus is good for his children... When the day comes we will KNOW it too!


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